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Genevieve  0:06  

Welcome to I Could Never… A podcast about non monogamy and the many ways it can look. I'm Genevieve from Chill polyamory on Instagram, Tiktok and YouTube, and I'm joined, as always, by my co host and partner, Ishik

Ishik  0:18  

Yes, and ignoring any reports to the contrary, I'm definitely not a mannequin brought to life by Christmas magic.

Genevieve  0:25  

You know, I was wondering, so thank you for clearing that up.

Ishik  0:29  

But I'm more happy than that to welcome our guest today, who is Lex. She is a social worker who might just be our first monogamous guest on the show, yay. Thank you so much, Lex for joining us today.

Lex  0:43  

Hi, thank you so much for having me. 

Ishik 0:45

However.

Genevieve  0:47  

You're so dramatic today.

Ishik  0:51  

I am dramatic today. I was looking at the weather report earlier, and I saw an acute chance of it being Cloudy with a Chance of Vibe or Vent.

Genevieve  0:59  

I love you so much.

Ishik  1:04  

No, it was so good. It was, I feel really confident, and my cringing face is nothing but confidence.

Genevieve  1:11  

For anyone listening for the first time, we always like to start the show off with a little icebreaker called vibe or vent, where we'll each take a beat to share a bit about something that's either really making us happy recently or something that sucks, that we need to get off our chest. So, ishik, would you like to start us off today? 

Ishik  1:29  

Sure, sure. So despite my dramatic, upbeat mood, I'm actually venting today. I'm venting. I'm venting at winter. Okay, winter. I'm coming for you. Okay, so here's the thing, I actually really like winter. I love snowboarding. I haven't been in a couple years, but I do love to snowboard, and I think some of the esthetics are very pretty. I'm even up. I'm even kind of like some of the decorations and stuff for the Christmas, but I kind of feel like it lingers. Yes, it very much wears out its welcome. I'm like, a little over it at this point, it's just kind of fucking cold, cold and I and I don't want to walk wearing a giant jacket anymore. It was like fun at first, and it was like, oh, it's such a brisk air tonight. But after like, more than a month, two months, I'm just like, Oh, I'm done with this. Yeah, Jack Frost, Eat my ass. 

Genevieve  2:16  

I think that's fair. Yeah, we did move further north, so we have a longer winter, so a little bit of it is on us.

Ishik  2:22  

But no, I accept no responsibility.

Genevieve  2:25  

Well, Lex, we would love to ask you, are you vibing, or are you venting today?

Lex  2:30  

I'm vibing. I had a really nice holiday week with my poly fuel. I enjoyed all of the things that we got to do. Lots of good quality time. I enjoyed myself a lot. 

Genevieve  2:40  

That's great. Yeah, we're recording this right after Christmas and New Year's. So you spent Christmas and New Year's with your with your whole polycule?

Lex  2:47  

I did, and it's been so nice to get that extra quality time. But yeah, we did. Got to do Christmas morning with the kids, and got to do New Year's with them, which is always a lot of fun seeing whether they can make it up until midnight or not? But yeah, we had a great time. Did they make it to midnight? One of them did? Yes, ooh. And then we all promptly passed out right after that. So it was, it was nice. 

Genevieve  3:13  

Well, I'm vibing more now that we're chatting together, I'm feeling more smiley. Um, I was wanting to vent earlier, so it's a weird mix of, I'm in a good mood, but I'm gonna stick to the plan and be mad. So I'm venting today about corporate emails and like, the way that it is so fake, and specifically this dance that will have to do, or I'm expected to do, there's this chipperness and enthusiasm and stuff, and I just don't like doing that in return. And so I don't play the game, I don't do the dance, and I don't have all these exclamation points and emojis, and then the reaction is sort of like, why are you being mean? Like me? Just being neutral gets, I don't know, treated like you're hostile or something. Yeah, I'm just over it. I would just like if it was okay for us to have business conversations that were real. If that makes sense?

Ishik  4:13  

I don't know, that doesn't make sense to me at all. I love corporate emails. You love corporate emails. Yeah, they're my favorite type of communication. So I just don't get it.

Genevieve  4:21  

Okay. Well, okay.

Ishik

Anyway, Lex, thank you again so much for joining us today. Where we usually like to get started is just to hear about our guests relationships, so if you could tell us a little about the structure of those relationships and yeah tell us about the people who are in your life right now?

Lex  4:41  

Absolutely, I have one partner. We have been together for two and a half years. I would consider myself monogamish, not monogamous entirely. I think that there are definitely scenarios in which I would not want to be monogamous. And. Then he my boyfriend, is married to his partner of over 20 years, and currently it's just the three of us in our poly fuel. But that's obviously subject to change. Over time it's been it's looked different at different times in our relationship, but for the past, like year and a half or so, it's been the three of us in our poly fuel. They have two kids. We've just created this lovely little found family that's really lovely.

Ishik  5:26  

When you were first entering this relationship with your boyfriend, would you say at that time that you considered yourself monogamous? 

Lex  5:35  

Yes, or I think, if I'm being honest with myself, I've always been monogamish. I never really thought of myself as having, like, more than one, like romantic relationship at a time, but I could, like, see myself casually dating or, like, hooking up with multiple people at once. And I think being more comfortable in my queerness has made me, like, realize I may not always want to be monogamous, you know what I mean? And so, like, allowing myself the space to, like, be more flexible was important.

Genevieve  6:13  

Yeah, so it sounds like it's just not imposed, even on yourself, by yourself, you know? It's like you're open to whatever shape it might take tomorrow. 

Lex  6:21  

Yes, I just don't want to put myself in a box, because I've done so much of that over time, like, especially when it comes to my romantic relationships, putting other people into boxes. And I think that that comes, you know, with unlearning monogamy too. It's just like trying to be more open minded about what a deeper relationship means, that's not living together and sharing finances or getting married or whatever. At this point in my like, unlearning monogamy journey, it makes more sense to keep things a little bit more fluid. So you know, in this relationship, yes, I am monogamous, but that doesn't mean that in the future, our relationship may look different.

Ishik  7:02  

Speaking, sorry, did you?

Genevieve  7:06  

I was gonna, I was gonna ask about how you met your partner. I'd love to hear the story of, you know how, how your relationship started and got to where it is today? 

Lex  7:15  

Sure. So I met my boyfriend on Tinder, and I generally would swipe left on guys that or just any person that had, like, ethical non monogamy in their bio just because not something that was really on my radar, even though I had, like, a friend that was in a very large polycule That was polyamorous, and I learned a lot from them about the relationship style, but there was just something That was interesting about his profile. He's also super cute. And I was just like, All right, we'll give it a shot, and let's see if we actually like, even connect. So our first date was a virtual date because it was still Omicron so we were trying to see whether it made sense for us to meet in person. And it was like a three and a half hour zoom date, which was really lovely. And right off the bat, he was just like, Hey, just wanted to make sure that you saw that my relationship says or my relationship, my profile says I'm, you know, ethically, non monogamous, that I am married and I have kids. And I was like, Yep, definitely saw that. He's like, great. Do you want to know how that works for us? And I was like, Yeah, that's really great. I would love it if you could tell me, like, what this looks like for you and, like, what it is that you're also, like, looking for. So right off the bat, really great communication, and we just kind of went full steam ahead. From there. I didn't realize that I was getting into, like, a relationship structure that is definitely not easy, because, you know, when someone's not just nested, but also is married and has kids, there are a lot of challenges that come with that. And we've just, you know, faced every challenge together, and it's been really lovely to grow this, like now, almost three year relationship together, and I wouldn't change any of it.

Genevieve  8:59  

Did you have any particular questions for your boyfriend on your first or second date? Like, about how it works?

Lex  9:06  

Yeah. So, I mean, like, I think definitely, you know, getting a better sense of, like, their relationship journey and how they came to this form of polyamory, where, you know, they're both dating separately, that was also, like, helpful understanding, like there are people that come at non monogamy from so many different ways, and so it just looks so different depending on who you're talking to, really.

Genevieve  9:31  

You mentioned that you used to swipe left on anyone who had non monogamy in their profile. Was there something about the way he described his non monogamy that felt like a green flag to you like a good sign. 

Lex  9:45  

I just appreciated the fact that he was so upfront, so that there was no, you know, cross wires or misunderstandings about what kind of relationship that this could be. You know what I mean? Because I definitely. Like, in my time online dating, been on dates with dudes that, after a couple of dates, are like, Hey, by the way, I'm actually married, but I'm separated, and I've had that happen, like, numerous times. And so just the fact that he was so upfront about it was something that was very appealing to me.

Genevieve  10:16  

Sometimes I hear people talk about, you know, if they're dating someone who has a really long term relationship, let alone, you know, these legal binding and children commitments and everything. But sometimes people will talk about like feeling intimidated, you know, and feeling like even a self imposed like desire to shrink, and I don't know, has did anything like that ever happen to you, where you were unsure of how much space you could take up.

Lex  10:43  

Oh, I mean, 100% 100% that was one of the things that I really struggled with. I was also just, like, struggling to, like, find myself too, right, like, just in terms of my own personal struggles and, like, past romantic relationships and so as I'm like, trying to figure out, where do I fit in in all of this, how are we going to make sure that we're going to get a satisfying amount of time together, right? That works for both of us? And then also, like, how do I actually show up in an authentic way in this relationship, so that I not only I'm meeting my own needs in this relationship, but I can also have somebody else meet the needs that I have in, like a partnership.

Ishik  11:24  

I have to imagine, as is the case for most of us, that there were some stumbling blocks, you know, some early challenges. And I'd love to hear kind of, what was the biggest early stumbling block that you encountered as you started exploring this.

Lex  11:38  

One of the big challenges for, like, the first six months of our relationship is just that I didn't know my metamour. She was very much just an abstract concept, like a person that was on the, I don't want to say, like, the periphery of our relationship, because that's not the right metaphor. But like, you know she was part of our relationship in some ways, right? She is the partner of my partner, and not knowing her kind of allowed my mind to go to very like jealous places and not always have the most empathy for her as like a person. And I found it really, really challenging to navigate some of that. It wasn't until I finally met my metamour kind of demystified this other person that is part of this equation, that we're a lot more settled into our dynamic. 

Genevieve  12:37  

I think that's a really relatable experience of just like when someone is an idea, they're so, so easy to project anything onto them totally. I'm curious. Do you have an example like, I'd love to see the contrast of like you mentioned there were times it was hard to feel empathy for her, for example. Do you have an example of like, when that was tough for you, versus what it's like today?

Lex  12:59  

I remember we were supposed to have plans, and my metamor wasn't feeling well, and it just wasn't going to be an option for her to, like, have the kids by herself. So instead of having, like, the usual sleepover where my, you know, boyfriend would come over, we'd have most of a day together, and then some of the morning, my time was being cut into or what I perceived was my time, and so we were gonna go grab dinner or something that was much more compact in terms of time, you know what I mean, like, it was just gonna be, like a couple hours that we were gonna be able to be together. And I really struggled with finding that empathy, as somebody that, you know, empathy is very much a part of my job, part of my work, it was very like disconcerting to me that I was lacking empathy in those moments, you know what I mean. And today that would never happen. It's much more like, okay, cool. Like, I totally understand. Like, what can I do? Is there anything that I can do from where I am to help out? You know? That is more of what it is, you know now. So it was just trying to figure out where I fit in in this puzzle, you know what I mean, but we will always figure it out.

Ishik  14:14  

So you were saying that it was like the first six months that you hadn't met your metamour. Was that out of like a deliberate intention from your boyfriend to kind of keep things separate, or was it just like happenstance, you just hadn't met each other, kind of thing? 

Lex  14:28  

I don't think I was ready to be completely honest with you, I was terrified by the idea of meeting her. It really scared me. You know, there's like no veto power or anything like that. But just the idea that, like this person that's been in my boyfriend's life for at that time, like 17 years, was just so anxiety inducing, really, it was very scary. And so I just was too freaked out. I remember the day. That I finally met my Metamora and my partner's kids, and we went to a brewery and just grabbed a beer and had some pizza. It was, like, super low key. The brewery had, like, lots of games for the kids and stuff like that. And I was, like, on the bathroom floor. I was so nervous. I was just like, oh my god, I'm gonna, like, throw up. There's no way I can do this. And I had some friends that were like, yes, you've got this. And it was just like, totally fine, you know. And talked about, like, the most mundane things, and it was like, so normal, you know. It wasn't as scary as I made it seem. And then, like, the next weekend, she was my metamor was out on a date, and I spent the night and got to hang out in my partner space. And that's when I really started feeling more grounded in our relationship, you know?

Ishik  15:50  

Kind of just to sort of get some idea of what a typical week looks like, you know, how, how does, how do you kind of break down time between you and your metamour and your partner and kids all that?

Lex  16:04  

Sure. So, um, I am entitled to as much time of my partner's time as his wife is practically. It doesn't really work like that, though, right? Because there are priorities that come with having kids with having a nesting partner. So I see my boyfriend once a week, overnight, very much in contact throughout the rest of the week. Recently, my metamour has also been spending a week a night at my apartment. So we just get to, like, hang out and have girl time, where, like, we craft and do things like that. So that's generally what a typical week will look like for us. 

Genevieve  16:43  

Were there ever, especially in that first six months? I guess we could start with, were there any like, growing pains with him about communication, around planning, or things like that? 

Lex  16:53  

Yeah, definitely, there were times that I felt like they were the ones that needed to do the planning because they have the kids, because of, you know, the different schedules and that kind of stuff, where, like, the planning would really need to take place on, like, their end, and then it would be communicated back to me, like, okay, I can come down on Saturday, or I can come down Friday. And so, like, I felt like those conversations would kind of happen, like, without me, without what works for, like my schedule too. So I would find myself planning, having to plan around what decision was being made about what time like my boyfriend would be available. And you know, there were definitely some problems doing things that way, and it was not easy, and it was very frustrating for me. Honestly, you know, we just had to, like, keep talking through it and be like, hey, as a couple with kids, there are a lot more variables on your end about what time is available, but my time also matters. Can we find a better way of trying to, like, schedule things where I feel more included in the plans, so that we're all like trying to work together to find time for all of our different things. Now we have a shared calendar, which definitely helps a lot.

Genevieve  18:12  

Yeah, it can make such a big difference, like even if you don't love the final plan that you land on, if you're included in the decision making, rather than being told this is what's gonna happen. Like that makes such a big difference. 

Lex  18:26  

Yeah, and honestly, like, now we've reached this point where my meta and I will just kind of figure out what the plans are for the weekend, and we'll just tell like.

Genevieve  18:35  

You'll tell him?

Ishik  18:46  

You know you reference this, this journey of, kind of unlearning monogamy and kind of exploring what your relationship with that idea is. And I'd love to kind of get a sense of what your first exposure to any form of non monogamy at all. Like, be it in you mentioned having friends, but just Yeah, where was kind of your starting point, first exposure to the idea, yeah.

Lex  19:10  

So it definitely was my friend. They were co worker of mine, and they were very openly polyamorous. They had, like, a primary partner that we knew they brought to, like work functions and stuff like that, but they would have like comment partners that would come into town, and they would travel out of state to see some of their other long distance partners. And so for me, that was really the first time that I started learning about alternative relationship styles. And at first it was very much like, Oh, I could, I could never do that. You know?

Genevieve  19:45  

Shout out the name of the show, by the way, I could never.

Ishik  19:48  

And that's why it's called that.

Lex  19:51  

Yeah, but I think that there was also just like, some fear in the unknown of that kind of relationship structure. But seeing, you know, my friend and. Their very large poly fuel network, they would do like D and D games. And I was like, the only person that wasn't in the poly fuel that was invited to play like D and D with them, and just getting to see all of these different dynamics that are at play was my first, like, real learning experience about polyamory.

Ishik  20:18  

I would guess, based on my experience of what I've seen online and from other people's stories, that it is definitely less common that in a kind of mono polyam adjacent dynamic, it is less common that the person who is monogamous or monogamish is not the like previous partner, right? Totally, you know, have you? Have you encountered that as well as being, as being less common? 

Lex  20:49  

Yeah. You know, one of the first things that I started doing upon meeting my boyfriend were, you know, looking at different subreddits, and I found, like, like a Facebook group that I joined that was for the monogamous partners of polyamorous people. And the vast majority of what is out there the monogamous partners who have been, in a lot of cases, poly bombed or their relationships have been opened in a very unethical way, you know, starting with cheating or something like that. And so in these groups, it's really like, primarily those people that are dealing very understandably with a lot of hurt, that are now having to try and figure out how to fit monogamy into their lives, right? Whereas for me, like I was the one that made the choice to, like, enter a relationship with somebody that is non monogamous. And so the support that I was looking for, the stories that I was looking for, I couldn't really find in those spaces. And I was just on, like, the polyamory subreddit, you know, a couple days ago, and you know, there was consensus on one post that, like, polyamorous people should never date monogamous people full stop, right? And so I feel like, you know, those kinds of things also erase my own experience. So it's been really hard for me to especially like in those early days, that first six months, like just trying to find somewhere where I felt seen, where I felt like I could ask some questions in a non judgmental space, and I just kept feeling like I was not finding what it was that I was looking for. And I think that that's true of a lot of like, the bigger books that are recommended and everything like that. Like, I remember reading the ethical slut, and there are several points in that book where they talk about, like, sleeping with your metamours and stuff like that. And it was really confusing for me. Honestly, I remember asking my boyfriend. I was like, Okay, I'm reading this book. Is there, like, some weird expectation that I don't know about, that I should be in a relationship with my metamour too. And he was like, Oh, my God, absolutely not. That's not what this is about. But I keep seeing it in like, this book. So it was, like, very confusing for me, and it's about opening relationships a lot as well. So like, I've just kind of had to figure things out on my own without necessarily feeling like I've had the same kind of support that exists for like couples that are opening their relationships for the first time and stuff like that. So it's a weird space to occupy in the world of non monogamy. That makes a lot of sense.

Ishik  23:36  

I did want to ask a quick clarifying question earlier. You use the term poly bomb, for the listeners who might not be familiar with the idea, what can you just give a quick definition of what poly bomb is?

Lex  23:47  

Yeah. So somebody that like poly bombs their partner basically just puts their polyamory on their partner without really giving them an opportunity to, like, even figure out what is going on. And in a lot of these groups, you know, mono, poly groups, a lot of the folks their partner, just says, like, Yes, I'm polyamorous now. Or this has always been a thing for me, like I just never knew about it, and I have this new person waiting in the wings for me. Or they cheated on their partner, and now they're, you know, now they're polyamorous, and they want to keep seeing like the person that they cheated on with. So like, those kinds of scenarios.

Genevieve  24:25  

I wish, I wish that was a lot less common, you know, that a lot of people feel a bit pushed into a dynamic they they don't want. 

Ishik  24:33  

But I also think it's important, you know, that it's understood that that's not always what it looks like like, you know, and I think the over representation of the downtrodden one partner and the super happy other partner is like, it's really giving non monogamy a bad fucking rap. You know? It's like, oh yeah, somebody's gonna be sad here. Yeah.

Genevieve  24:52  

So as you were reading these subreddits and books and starting. To Change how you thought about relationships. Was there ever a time that, as you were setting the expectations for these new relationships? Was there ever a time that old monogamous thinking crept back in? 

Lex  25:12  

Yeah, um, the expectation of time, like, how much time are you going to be with this other person. So for me, it was just like, oh, well, you know, how much time am I gonna get without really thinking, like, yes, there's the in person quality time, but there also is the time that we find throughout the week to, like, talk on the phone, to be connected in other ways, to play games together, like, even though, you know, I'm here and my boyfriend is 45 minutes away at his house. You know, being more intentional, but about the time that we spend together. I mean, also, when it comes to, like, holidays and stuff like that, that was hard the first year, just like, oh, well, I should be with my partner on New Year's Eve to, like, give them a midnight kiss. Like, isn't that what we all want? Isn't that, like, something you're supposed to do with your partner? And it's just like, well, not necessarily. We can celebrate New Year's and, like different I mean, you know, now we celebrate New Year's together as like a poly fuel, which is great, but like that first year, there was a lot of uncertainty around like, were we going to be spending certain holidays together? Would I get to see my boyfriend on my birthday or, like, Valentine's Day and like that kind of stuff, where a lot of those thoughts would just creep in of, like, this is not what should be in this relationship. It was just a reminder that there are so many like, outside forces that are trying to, like, tell you what your relationship is supposed to be, when really it doesn't have to be that way, and it also doesn't have to be such a personal thing. Now I don't really find myself having like thoughts where the compulsory monogamy is just kind of worming its way back into my mind.

Genevieve  26:55  

Did you ever find yourself like since this was the first non monogamous dynamic you had been, you know, this closely linked to did you ever find yourself comparing this to past monogamous relationships in terms of what you expected? 

Lex  27:07  

Yeah, 100% and I think that that's where reading stepping off the relationship escalator really helped me. Everyone around me was in relationships. Everyone around me was getting married and engaged and stuff like that. And I definitely felt in some ways I was less than, you know, really wondering, like, When am I going to get like, How long am I going to be with someone before I get, like, engaged or married, and like, looking back on it now, like the way that I would just try to be, like, really cool and like, go with the flow to get to make myself small in relationships just to try and kind of move up the relationship escalator to get to that next point, moving in with your partner, or something like that. That doesn't serve me at all right, and reading that book really just kind of blew up the concept of monogamy for me in terms of what the expectations are when going into relationships. And I was just like, so wait, I get to actually decide what this relationship is. Instead of having something just like imposed upon me, it was on New Year's Eve. We had a friend come over, and she was asking me and my boyfriend, like, well, what's next? And I'm like, What do you mean? What's next? Like, we're just gonna keep having this relationship, and it's gonna keep just growing in terms of, like, our feelings for each other, but like, it doesn't, there doesn't have to be a what's next? This idea that there are many paths to finding, you know, meaning and satisfaction in our relationships that are not derived from being married or engaged or like buying a house together and like tangling your finances and things like that, was very liberating for me, and it still does feel very liberating for me. We get to just enjoy this for what it is, and really make it ours. And I love not having that pressure anymore of like the what is next? 

Genevieve  29:16  

Was there any time with your current boyfriend that you felt a similar pressure to be like, cool and go with the flow.

Lex  29:23  

No, I left the cool girl at the door when I entered this relationship, and I was just like, if I'm gonna there was no way for me to go into this relationship and be able to act the way I was in previous relationships. It wasn't going to work in this type of relationship structure, and so I'm not going to make myself feel small and pretend that my needs don't matter. When I'm in a relationship with someone that also has to that's also in like another relationship, he has to be able to be like a good hinge, right? And I have. Be honest about what it is that I need to feel fulfilled in this relationship, to feel satisfied in this relationship, to feel secure in this relationship. And I just had to approach, you know, we started our relationship with a lot of open communication, and I just knew that I had to keep that going on my end as well.

Genevieve  30:19  

You, you mentioned that you know in this conversation about the escalator and everything that your friend, you had a friend ask, so what's next? And I think that's very common when we decide we want to let go of that, but then we're around a bunch of people who haven't. Do you get questions like that often, since this is your only partner at the moment?

Lex  30:38  

Yes, I do. There are some people in my life where I feel like I constantly have to, like, defend this relationship style from the I could never do that. Well, okay, I'm not asking you if you can. I'm literally just talking to you about my relationship with this person. You know what I mean? And I feel like I still get that a lot, and I feel like I constantly have to explain that things are okay, even though I can't. We're not moving in a specific direction that, like everyone else is on. So we do find ourselves having to, like, repeat the same things over and over about it, but it's just, I it's more amusing to me at this point than anything, just because, like, we just are, you know what? I mean, it's just, it's nice. 

Ishik  31:32  

Yeah, we have a decent sense of what it kind of looks like now with your metamour and and we heard a little bit about kind of the starting point where you were first meeting her. Can you kind of bridge the gap from that initial anxiety and first meeting to where it is now and this level of friendship? Question mark?

Lex  31:52  

Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, honestly, she's one of my closest friends and, like, biggest cheerleaders. So, you know, we what would happen is I would go up to, you know, visit my boyfriend, where he is, and the two of us would just go out for, like, lunch and grab a beer before she would, like, go on her date later that evening or something like that. So we just started incrementally, just like, spending time together, getting to know each other. You know, we're very aligned when it comes to, like, our politics and worldview and things like that. So there was never like, I was always like, Oh my God, what are we gonna, like, have to talk about, like, are we gonna, you know, is there anything beyond our shared partner that we're gonna have in common? And that really isn't an issue. So, you know, we just gradually, you know, started spending more time together, which turned into, like, more family hangouts and stuff like that. And then, you know, to us just hanging out without our shared partner, where she'll just like, come over and we'll go out for the night or craft or see mutual friends or whatever. And I mean, my metamour is a relationship anarchist, and so I think that you know, her, having that mentality probably really helped me kind of fit in, in whatever way that I found comfortable, whatever way was comfortable for us, and just kind of letting that relationship organically like be what it is, without having to try and fit me into like, an anti role, or like something like that. You know what I mean, like, you didn't have to prove no, like, I just am Lex. I show up as Lex, and that is, like, my role in the family. I just am the Lex. You know what I mean. I don't find it to be like, particularly, like, taxing to be around the family, or anything like that, to be around my my meta, more like, we don't have to, like, entertain each other. We can all just be it's just very comfortable.

Genevieve  34:02  

So we heard a bit about your polyamorous friend who is helping you a lot. But I'm curious, how did you bring up if you've brought it up non monogamy, to the monogamous people in your life? 

Lex  34:14  

Yeah, so the first person that I talked to you openly about it with was my sister. She had a frame of reference. She had somebody that she went to grad school with that was queer, non binary and polyamorous. And I was like, Okay, this is checking just a lot of boxes for me right now. So we can just, you know, you have a frame of reference for, like, all of this stuff. So, you know, she was really accepting about it. It took me significantly longer to tell my mom, who was not really understanding about the relationship style itself, but was more concerned about like me being happy and treated well. And as long as those things were true, then like she didn't have to understand. You know that? What exactly this was about. But it took my dad, took me almost the entire six, like, first six months of my relationship, to tell my dad, because I knew that he was going to be the most judgmental about it. And, you know, from our initial conversation about it, where I was just like, hey, my boyfriend, who I've been seeing for six months, is actually married, and he's got two kids, and they're in a polyamorous relationship, and, you know, all these different things. And his takeaway from that was that this was something that my boyfriend was doing to his wife, and, you know, I tried to explain that, knowing that it's not going to get me, like, super far with him, but, like, No, this is, like, an actual choice that they made together as a couple to have this kind of relationship style, you know. So with him, I don't talk about anything related to the relationship, just because I know it's not going to be like understood. But you know, my boyfriend and his kids have come to my niece's birthday party for the past two years, so my family may not entirely understand, but they will always be very courteous and, like, accepting of like my boyfriend and, you know, they've been very welcoming to the kids who are, you know, around the same age as, like my niece and nephew, so like, they've met and they've, like, played together, and, you know, that's great. But the one thing that I think is the most challenging is that they don't understand my meta more and like her role, and like how we can be really close friends. So like, she's not invited to like things My boyfriend is invited. Like, if it's something that the kids can be involved into, like the kids are invited, but like she is not right. That's been one of the hardest things is like, I want her to be included in these things too, you know? And it's just it almost feels like there's something that's missing, and like the understanding and all of it, if that makes sense.

Genevieve  36:56  

Yeah, that even well intentioned and courteous, that there's like a struggle to expand totally the definition of family.

Lex 37:05

Yes.

Ishik  37:06  

Yeah, I mean, I think you just touched on it right there, right? You used the the word family and and you've already said it multiple times throughout the interview about this being your family, your found family. And that's what I'm hearing as well, is that they can maybe understand boyfriend and kids as part of your life, as part of your family, but they can't see her, your metamour, as a part of that.

Lex 37:31  

Yeah, exactly. 

Genevieve  37:33  

That's hard. That's really tough. Do you, have you ever been in a similar situation on the inverse, where, like, their extended family doesn't know how to incorporate you?

Lex  37:43  

No, no, no. Honestly, I have a really great relationship with my metamours mom. She has been easily the most inclusive of all of the parents, and she just kind of like includes me at this point as, like, one of her kids, you know, and it's just the most wonderful thing to come out of this very unexpected. But I, I'm very much present and known, you know, to my boyfriend's parents. It's been such an unexpected delight this, like, larger network of like family. So that's been really exciting, too. It's really beautiful. 

Ishik  38:23  

Is there something that you feel like you get from, found family that you feel like you can't or don't get from? Perhaps, like family of origin?

Lex  38:35  

Oh, 100% and I think that the biggest thing is that I get to show up as a much more authentic version of myself, you know, our family, you know, because of the history, I worry sometimes that I'm only seen as one way and one thing based on my, excuse me, my younger experiences, like with my families, like my struggles, whatever that happened in my teenage years, early 20s, I feel Like, in some ways, I'm kind of stuck in like a role that I'm playing that I haven't been able to show up as my most authentic self. You know what I mean, in a box, for lack of a better word, everything about found family to me, is intentional. From the beginning of my relationship with my boyfriend, I really put a large emphasis on showing up as my most authentic self, like, if I'm just like not feeling well like, I'm not going to pretend that I'm okay. I'm just going to feel the feelings and let myself sit in them, instead of trying to put on my happy face or take up less space, I am really allowing myself the full range of emotions and just be more honest, like, hey, like we're all hanging out. I actually am getting really over stimulated, and I need some quiet time, so I'm gonna go into the other room for a little while and just like, chill out by myself, you know, like, actually. Saying those things.

Genevieve  40:01  

He’s just pointing at me, yeah, all the time. Yeah. I get it like, too much light and sound, yeah. Gotta be away totally.

Lex  40:08  

Like, if I'm getting like, really over stimulated, like, by the kids, or I'm just like, hit by a really hard moment based on a conversation we're having or something's going on, I can honor those feelings and not have to feel like I need to hide or project and all is okay, like, attitude and so knowing that all of these people care about me and like, love me and accept me for that is like, I wish that that's something I wish everyone could like experience that feeling. Because I just, I feel so secure. I really do.

Ishik  40:46  

You know, speaking a bit to, you know, your role in the family, you've touched a little bit on, you know, you hanging out with the kids and then being around and I'd love to kind of get a sense of what your relationship to them is like, do you act as any kind of, you know, secondary caregiver, or are you just kind of like a friend of their parents?

Lex  41:07  

I'm very much just accepted as part of this family unit. That's just kind of what it is, you know, they're aware that I am their dad's girlfriend, and they understand what the relationship structure is in like an age appropriate way, making sure that they are very secure in their family unit, and making sure that they know that their parents love them and that they're not going anywhere there are just more people for them to love. Essentially, you know what I mean? Like our love is not finite. We are able to give our love to many people, and this is just a particularly special relationship where we love each other too, and now they just get someone else that's like in their corner. You know?

Genevieve  41:54  

I love that. Yeah, kids, kids tend to get it. I don't know if that was your experience. Not really that complicated. 

Lex  42:01  

It's not that complicated. And also, it doesn't matter to them, you know, as long as they.

Ishik  42:07  

Yeah, as long as they feel secure and loved and like their family is okay, like, yeah, they're like, Okay, sure, yeah, cool.

Lex  42:16  

We just get, like, another person in our lives, and, um, we just did, like, our third Christmas and, like, New Year's Eve and everything. And it's been so wonderful to get to, like, watch them grow over the past couple of years. And just, I feel like they're turning into little adults, but just see how they're growing over time. It's just It's been such a wonderful thing to be able to be a part of.

Genevieve  42:40  

Sometimes we hear people bad mouthing non monogamy, saying that if you have extra partners, it's bad for the family and bad for the kids. And I know that to not be true. You know that to not be true. But I wonder, is there an example of, you know, some kind of challenge or hardship that really showed that having extra people in your life was a great thing.

Lex  43:06  

I would say, like one instance where, like, this kind of extended family unit that we've created, really, you know, worked in a scary time, as you know, my partner, my boyfriend, was in the hospital, and so me and my metamor had to kind of figure out, okay, like she's the one that's going to be helping him, like, in the hospital, it's his wife. She's going to be able to be more included in, like, what's going on with the medical stuff than I am, which is fine. And so, you know, I was at the hospital while she got the kids situated, and then she came back, and I took the kids for the day and made sure that I could get them home and watch them until, you know, my boyfriend and metamore had come back from their like, medical appointment. But that's how we kind of, like, divided things up, and it worked really well. The kids were with somebody that they really trusted during a very scary time, and we were just able to kind of come together and figure out what made the most sense to make sure that my boyfriend was going to get the care and attention that he needed, and that everyone else was going to be okay. 

Ishik  44:14  

That was really sweet. I like that story a lot. Sorry. I'm not tearing up. I'm, I'm very stoic.

Lex  44:23  

It was, you know, it was a very scary moment, but it's like, once we had gotten over that, it was just like, You know what? This just makes sense. 

Genevieve  45:07  

Thank you again, Lex, so much for coming on. Thank you. We're just really happy to share the kind of story that you wish you saw three years ago. You know, we want that to exist, so thank you for offering that today.

Ishik  45:20  

Yeah, definitely, uh, the one of the kind of goals of the show is to, yeah, see those gaps in the stories being told and really put them forward. So thank you. Seriously, it's been awesome. 

Lex  45:33  

So happy to be here.

Ishik  45:34  

And if you are looking for more non monogamy content, Genevieve, as always, is on Tiktok and Instagram at chill polyamory, also on YouTube, where she discusses non monogamy in film and TV.

Genevieve  45:46  

So you can support those projects and this podcast directly on Patreon, and there you'll get early access to videos, private polyamory stories, live question and answers and an option for one on one peer support. So that's patreon.com/chill, polyamory. 

Ishik  46:01  

This has been I could never and for everyone listening, remember that just because you've never done something before doesn't mean that you can't do it.