Genevieve  0:07  

Welcome to I Could Never… A show about non monogamy and the many ways it can look. I'm Genevieve from Chill Polyamory on Instagram, Tiktok and YouTube, and I'm joined, as always, by my co host and partner, Ishik.

Ishik  0:18  

Yes, yes, a result of countless chemical reactions, returning me once more to this point in time. What’s up, I’m Ishik.

Genevieve  0:27  

We don't really have a guest to interview today. 

Ishik 0:30

What? What me? Yes, I'm the guest. 

Genevieve 0:32

You're the guest today. 

Ishik  0:33  

Look at me. Look at me. I'm the guest now.

Genevieve  0:38  

Okay, actually, you listener, you are the guest this week. We're doing a special question and answer where a lot of you submitted questions via email. We asked for them in the last episode, and so we're gonna take a minute, Ishik and I, to give answers to the best of our ability. We'll give you our opinion. We'll shoot the shit, and we'll see what we see. Yeah.

Ishik  0:59  

I mean, I think people seemed to like it last time, and honestly, I like doing it, and it's easy. Yeah, happy to, happy to mix it up. But first, like a Sharknado tearing its way through your life, it's Vibe or Vent!

Genevieve  1:15  

Vibe or Vent time! For anyone listening for the first time, we like to start our episodes off with a segment called vibe or vent, where we take a beat to share a little bit about what we're vibing on this week. What's something that makes us happy or something that we need to vent about and get off our chests so I can vibe. I can get us started. 

Ishik  1:34  

Yeah, go ahead and break this already broke ass ice. 

Genevieve  1:38  

We're gonna break the ice here. Yeah, no, I'm kind of vibing this week. There's a lot to vent about, but I have chosen and decided, and I'm determined to find something good in the world that I'm excited about. And one of which is, this month, I'm gonna be doing a retrospective on 25 years of non monogamy in cartoons. So I'm gonna be going back through, I don't know, a few decades of animation and seeing what are all the examples of non monogamy I can look at, talk about, make fun of, or say this is amazing. 

Ishik  2:12  

So I'm just… Listeners, I'm gonna make sure there's no making fun of, okay, we don't mock animation in this household. But also, I mean, specifically, we get to watch Steven Universe.

Genevieve  2:22  

I've actually not seen it, and I’ve heard a lot of really fun good things. 

Ishik 2:25

Surprisingly, neither have I.

Genevieve 2:27

But yeah, so I'm excited about it. Stay tuned. That'll be out in the end of the month. So anyway, baby, what are you vibing or venting on? Are you happy? Are you pissed today?

Ishik  2:39  

I am shaking wildly with a vent. 

Genevieve 2:41

Yeah, you got a vent in you? 

Ishik 2:43

I'm like, wiggling back and forth because I don't want to vent. 

Genevieve  2:48  

Okay, well, you can hit us with it. I went high and light with it. You gonna bring us down?

Ishik  2:54  

I am, I am gonna bring us down. Okay, so I believe maybe you would agree. I'm a fucking fun guy, a fun guy. I'm a good time, great at parties, actually, and not immediately seemingly related note, but related to what I'm gonna say, I am generally like, hands off on other people's fucking lives. You do you, right? I want to live my life in the way I want to live my life. I want other people to live their lives the way they want to live their lives, as long as they're not immediately directly hurting someone. And I think that's actually the problem. I have found myself a lot recently in circumstances where people's often inaction in their own lives is going to result in harm, potential harm coming their way. And when it's a bunch of people that I care about, it's hard to not say something, you know? And you have to accept that you can't control them, you know. You can't make them do what you think they should do, but I also have to at least try to draw their attention to it, and then, like, walk away. I'm putting my hands up in the air, right? But, but it fucking sucks, and it's really hard. Yeah, I'm tired.

Genevieve  4:14  

Yeah. I mean, it's really tough being somebody who doesn't meddle. You really don't meddle, no. And it’s hard to know when to intervene, and then also when to step back.

Ishik  4:23  

And to let them know that I care. Yeah, like, that's and that's the thing at the end of the day, is always it's just, hey, I love you. I care about you. I'm saying this from that place and that place alone. I think the hardest is when it comes with an accusation of control. Because if I had control over this, if I rather, if I wanted to control I wouldn't be coming with this, like an open heart. I'd be telling you, which is not what I'm doing. 

Genevieve  4:49  

Yeah, I think that's the value of a vent too. We gotta let it out. 

Ishik  4:54  

You gotta, you gotta, fucking. Blehhhhh

Genevieve  4:58  

He's doing spirit hands.

Ishik  5:00  

I mean, first off, spirit fingers. 

Genevieve 5:02

Fingers, sorry, sorry. 

Ishik 5:04

Spirit Fingers, I would call them like ghoul fingers. 

Genevieve 5:07

Fingers. Got it. Thank you. 

Ishik 5:09

Spirit Fingers is, like, extended out. Ghoul fingers is, like, a little creepy. Now I'm gonna leave you the listener to determine what that looks like. So okay. Let's fucking do this, man, yeah, let's get into it. Questions. So question numero uno, how can I deal with other people's negativity around the topic of non monogamy? My friends seem to search for problems, even if there aren't any, or say things like, Oh, you are still together, and it triggers me, because I feel like my relationship is treated differently in general. I struggle with people's questions that are too personal and intimate, but I don't know how to push back if I say I don't want to talk about it. I feel like they think something is wrong, parentheses, unfortunately, I care too much what others think. Is there a more elegant way to respond? One, I think that that parentheses is the, the key phrase here, right? If I'm gonna be totally honest, fuck them. Right? Like, that's, that's my approach. My approach is, Oh, you don't like it. Okay, go fuck yourself. Like, I don't care.

Genevieve  6:16  

Yeah. I mean, I can empathize with caring too much about what other people think, and having that anxiety, I do wonder, like, on this topic, are they your friends? Because, like, Oh, you're still together. That's such a shitty thing. I would never say that to my friends. My monogamous friends are in marriage counseling. And then they mentioned they did something, they went to the fair together.

Ishik  6:45  

Oh, you're still together. Like, you'd be a huge asshole.

Genevieve  6:47  

Right? So, at the very least from a human, “Hey, you're still my friend, right? You still care about me, right?” level, that's not a cool way to be, you know? And the reality is, is like, there can be a lot of reasons that people are shitty about the topic of non monogamy, a lot of which have nothing to do with you. Plenty of people need it to not be possible. They're like, upset even at the idea of it, whether that comes from their religious message messaging, or the fact that maybe a part of them wants it and they resent it, or maybe they were cheated on, and they're conflating consenting, non monogamy to the betrayal that I experienced, and all of that I've seen get projected over and over and over, that they need your situation to be wrong, undoable failing. I've had friends who, quote, unquote, friends who wanted me to fail because that suited their world view, and it is demonstrably not loving or helpful or supportive. So it could very well be that these people are just not people. You can take this topic to you know, but if you do have anyone who's well meaning genuinely, you get the sense they're well meaning. They're just ignorant. They're saying something that's just like, not in not well informed of like, are you okay? But it comes out like, Are you sure you want to do this, you know, which is not what you want to hear. If it is in that place, they might be teachable. There might still be a world where you can redirect them to what you would rather hear instead. 

Ishik  8:21  

Yeah. I mean, I think the important part here is, this is a multi like, we're talking about multiple different scenarios, right? That's true. So one, if the person is hostile, just be like, Listen, you seem hostile to the premise of non monogamy. I don't think that we need to talk about this, right? You can just disengage from that conversation and call out that they seem to have an opposition to the idea. That's my opinion. Now, beyond that, if the person isn't hostile to it, but is just ignorant, that's when I think some of what Genevieve is saying is most applicable. You can educate them. But frankly, with the hostile group, that's where I get the fuck them, right? And again, I'm not saying fuck them. They can go out of your life entirely, but this is just not somebody that you should talk to about your relationship. They clearly don't understand. They don't want to understand. And I think you can maybe develop the muscle of saying, “Oh, I don't really want to talk to you about it, because I don't trust you with that”. And put it on them, right? Like, I think you're taking on a little too much responsibility for trying to figure out how you finesse this social interaction when you haven't done anything wrong. They're doing, the people who are coming with hostility, they are doing the wrong thing. They need to do the work, and whether or not they take that on is their business, right? But you've now clearly established a boundary. I will not talk to you about this.

Genevieve  9:47  

Really I think it comes back down to what is your relationship with this person? Obviously, you're not going to push back on your grandmother the way you would your co worker, right? So factor that in. But also, what does it seem like they're trying to do? They might be doing it badly, but are they trying to express empathy or fear or worry for you because they love you, or are they trying to get one over on you and dunk on you because they're having a bad day? Right? Like, I match energy for energy.

Ishik  10:15  

And I think, as an addendum to all this, go make more non monogamous friends. Yeah, none of these people are going to really be able to help you, right? So talk to more non monogamous people. You don't have people in your direct community go online, you know, just, just talk to other non monogamous people about this stuff. Go. Go for it. You got it, yeah?

Genevieve  10:37  

Okay, next question from someone who is monogamous until proven otherwise. What are your thoughts on getting involved with an ex who practices polyamory? Is it a problem to use poly as a quote, unquote “in” back into an ex's romantic, sexual life when I myself am monogamous, but super interested in the theory behind polyamory and the practice of it? Okay, so why are they an X is usually my question. 

Ishik  11:05  

That's going to be the biggest determining factor about whether or not this is going to function, much more than anything else. 

Genevieve  11:13  

Yeah, yeah. And you mentioned that you are interested in the theory behind polyamory, the questioning of your own way of loving. Can that be separate from how will this reconnection with an ex go? You know, because those, you can absolutely question yourself and even reconnect with somebody, but I wouldn't say that this will prove or not prove if you're not monogamous.

Ishik  11:39  

I think, yeah, so if they are already in another relationship, and then you realize in trying to reconnect with them that you are not non monogamous, or maybe you're monogamous, but you're not comfortable being with somebody who's in relationship with somebody else, you're setting yourself up to be hurt, then you have to break up again. Yeah, and that sucks. So like, I think, to the extent that you can try to figure out if this is something you want to do before you commit to getting involved with them again, because I'm more concerned about you hurting yourself more than anyone else. So yeah, I think try your best to figure out if this is something you really want to do and don't let your feelings or maybe desire to be back in sexually or romantically with this ex drive the boat here.

Genevieve  12:35  

Is any part of you imagining or picturing what this will look like? What does a success story look like? Because, let's say you are monogamous and only love one person in this way. Does that mean that it's a given that they would be the one who moves in with you, or raises a family with you, or, if you were to move across the country, of course they would come with you? You know, like, if you play it all the way through, would it be hurtful if they're like, “Well, I want a girlfriend that I see, you know, half of the week, I'll see you the other half of the week”, for example? Would it be hurtful if they're like, “Well, I only want to see you once a week, once a month. That's what I want with you.” and you're monogamous. Would that be hurtful? Are you settling? You know, are you trying to be with this person to your own detriment? Because it's not actually the kind of relationship you would love to build, but you know, so what is it that you imagine building? You have to, you don't have to know exactly what you want. But when you're like, oh, this could go well. What does it going well look like? And are you like he was saying, potentially setting yourself up to get hurt, or, you know, have you had these explicit conversations with your ex then you feel a little on the same page? You know?

Ishik  13:47  

Yeah, I think, I think that, you know, maybe there's some things, some fine details, that are like, Okay, I'm not totally sure about these details. I can't know until I know the emotions. Fine. But if the big picture stuff about what you want and what they want does not align. Don't do it. Yeah, don't do it because this way won't work. It just won't work.

Genevieve  14:10  

And it doesn't mean that you can't be non monogamous, that you can't be polyamorous, like I said separately, if you continue to explore it. Maybe you do discover you want some form of polyamory, and just not the form of polyamory that you could have with this person, you know. So, yeah, you're asking yourself good questions. Just keep playing it all the way through like, you know, risk reward. Whenever it comes to reconnecting with an ex of any kind, I'm like, why did we break up in the first place? And what's the risk versus the reward here? You know? Yeah,

Ishik  14:42  

Okay, so the next question is about age gaps. There are some additional details that I'm probably gonna paraphrase a little bit for the listener. They're in an age gap relationship with a nesting partner, and how they talk about and experience the age gap has changed. Changed since they began seeing each other. They feel like it adds a lot of depth, but also there are some challenges. Specifically, their partner has had more time, quote, unquote, being polyamorous and exploring his sexuality, becoming financially stable and, yeah, becoming comfortable with who he is. But his growth and quote, life stage looks very different from my growth and life stage. With those aspects in mind, I'm finding that our age gap can amplify some challenges that we already face in polyamory, especially while nesting. Do you? Yeah, what, what are your thoughts? What are our thoughts on age gaps? So, yeah, I think that the the general premise is just, what are your thoughts about this? That's fine. 

Genevieve  15:47  

Okay. Well, so age gaps. My answer is dramatically different depending on what the ages are. When somebody is like 18, dating a 40 year old, for example, I have a different answer than if they are 35 dating a 55 year old or 60 year old. 

Ishik  16:05  

You know, listen, I'm gonna be a little bit blunter about it if I'm gonna be so honest. I have questions, I have concerns, even, and if I am wrong, I do apologize. I'm genuinely not making a commentary on your personal relationship because I do not know it. But I have seen a very common occurrence where there are significantly older men than their partners who are much less experienced. And I have seen those dynamics often result in, listen, I'm going to be real, dynamics that involve manipulation and control. And I think while I'm not hearing that in what you are saying, as a general question, what do I think about age gaps? When I hear that somebody is a significantly older man, it is a bit of a red flag to me.

Genevieve  16:55  

I guess, with this question about age gaps, why are you asking about it? What is it that you're worried about? You mentioned challenges. Didn't really go into the details of what those challenges are. So I think that context is going to be everything, because if it's challenges around like, well, he has a little bit more financial freedom than I do, because he's been working longer, so he gets to go on vacations and more creative dates, and I don't with the people I date, right? Like that can be a point of tension, of like, we're in different stages of our life, but it's not like, necessarily a quote, unquote problem. It's just something that you are adjusting to or have feelings about. But if he has a lot more money, and you have some sort of financial interdependence on him, and then he gets to say how much you can spend on a date, for example, then we're talking about how power dynamics and that sort of gap would create room for control, if not active control, right? So I think the question is, what is it that you are worried about.

Ishik  18:04  

I mean, and I think you're also touching on it, right? The idea of a power dynamic, right? And that power dynamic, if not navigated with incredible care, can, can become a bad thing, like it just can.

Genevieve  18:17  

Yeah, I think also, you know, I in my earlier 20s, I had some experience dating older men that were twice my age. I had experience, you know, interacting with lesbians that were significantly older than me. And I, well, I was in my 20s, you know, I was fully an adult, but I was also incredibly like, I still had a lot of trauma recovery work to do, and so sometimes that got conflated with like, Oh, she's, like, really mature for her age. Again, this, I'm just telling my story here. When really, like, I wasn't emotionally equipped for some of the things that intellectually I was equipped for. So that also needed to be taken into account that some things that were first for me were very scary and needed to have a lot of care around it. When, if it's old hat to my partner, maybe even they were telling me how it should go, or how it's supposed to be, then that started to influence my own self discovery, right? Like when it comes to experience gaps in polyamory, even if there's not an age gap, if someone's like, Oh, I've been doing this 10 years. This is how it goes. This is what's normal. I always side eye that a little bit because I prefer and I think people should come with curiosity. This is how I've done it. But what are you going through? What are you thinking? What are you feeling? You know, I think there needs to be some humility that just because I've been around for a minute doesn't mean I am the voice, I am a voice, but I am not your mentor on this. I am your partner.

Ishik  19:47  

Just to be clear, I don't think that those kinds of statements will always look like, oh, you stupid little child. Yeah, they're not, yeah, yeah. Like, it can often look like, oh, well, you know. So in my experience, like this and this and this, it can sound very reasonable. Just because you are the less experienced person or the younger person or the less financially stable person or any of these things, that does not mean you do not have a seat at the table, right? You are as much a driver of this relationship as them.

Genevieve  20:18  

Okay? Next question says, my partner of five years, suddenly started going to bars and kissing and flirting with strangers. She didn't talk to me beforehand, so I just didn't expect it at all. Now she's texting, sending selfies, very deep in new relationship energy. I support her, but I really miss when she was that into me. How do I talk to her about my feelings and boundaries without a fight about, quote, unquote, holding them back?

Ishik  20:43  

So quick time out, because I handed Genevieve the phone with the question on it right before she started to read it, and I watched her eyes start to pop out of her head a little bit.

Genevieve  20:54  

I just… 

Ishik 20:55

As she was like, what is happening?

Genevieve  20:58  

She didn’t talk to you about it at all? I'm hoping the premise is that you've agreed to be non monogamous.

Ishik  21:04  

I’m guessing that the foundation here was non monogamous. Yeah, that it was just a very sudden shift in how the partner was reaching out to new people. 

Genevieve  21:17  

Yeah. So in general, I try and avoid surprises about firsts.

Ishik  21:22  

And it does sound like there are a number of firsts kind of happening all at once. And in addition, I think, I think there's two questions here. What I'm hearing. One is about this sudden shift, right, this surprise. But two is also this, this feeling of seeing the partner in a lot of NRE and not feeling that too. So there's also maybe a lack of attention and care being given to this relationship as well, and maybe needing to get aligned with their partner. And I guess my biggest question is, is that a collaborative effort both partners want to participate in?

Genevieve  22:00  

Yeah, is she seeing you as her opponent in this? You know that your motive is to put her in a box, because I'm not hearing that like you're I'm hearing you attempt to try to be cool with, like, some surprises and, you know, some dishonesty. So hey, if, if you want to do this. Here's how I would like to know about it. Here's the kind of love and reminders that I'm safe I would need you know? Hey, can you, I'm so glad you're feeling shiny and sparkly over there. Can I get a little that shine and sparkle? Can we go on some creative new dates? Can we have some novelty? Can we try some things so that I know I'm not just the boring one left at home while you go out and have fun with new strangers. Like, there are practical ways that you can say like, Hey, I want you to explore all parts of yourself and get to know new people. And here's what I would love for our connection to feel like solidified, as well as what kind of heads up or communication, what's too much information, what's not enough that that can be decided on so that yeah, again, it all comes back down to like, are you in this together, and are you both invested in the other person, feeling safe and free? 

Ishik  23:14  

Yeah, and as just like a final note, I want to say that I do not think I am not hearing, quote, unquote, holding them back. No, at all, just at all. And I think if that's a message coming from internally, you can let go of that. And if that's a message you're receiving, I think you might need to push back on that, yeah, because that is not what I'm hearing. I'm hearing fear and hurt. Yeah, you don't need to be feeling hurt or neglect in your own dynamic.

Music

Ishik 23:50

This question is a bit long, so I'm going to paraphrase a bit. Spouses, married people, opened up nine months ago. One partner is on the asexual spectrum, and writer of the question is seeing somebody else, has a girlfriend. Their spouse has no desire for other partners, even though she knows that she can explore, and girlfriend also doesn't have any desire bandwidth to pursue any additional partners. And essentially, getting into the crux of the question, the writer has a gnawing concern that they are not experiencing some of the real anxieties polyamory seems to expose, since neither of my partners have or want other partners, currently. Framing it as a bit of polyamory imposter syndrome. So the question essentially is, should I waste time and energy worrying about this or just continue to enjoy what I am experiencing fully?

Genevieve  24:55  

Aw, you're nervous that you're not nervous enough. I get it, I get it. Because when things are feeling good, it's like, I'll have this stress of, like, when's the other shoe gonna drop? Or I'm not gonna be prepared for a rainy day because it's so sunny out. I don't know. Am I misreading it? 

Ishik  25:11  

No, I think that's about what it's asking. Yeah, like, I like, to be fair, I did cut a lot of the stuff in there, but that is essentially what they’re saying.

Genevieve  25:18  

So, yeah. I mean, if you I just want to say, like, have faith in yourself, like, the same impulse that is wanting to plan and be prepared now you will be that same person if things get rocky, if you start to feel jealous or scared. And you can absolutely get ready for that specific situation if or when it arises. 

Ishik  25:40  

Yeah. And I think, like, kind of speaking to that, what we're hearing clearly is that you are, you know, reading books. I'm not sure if I said that, but they did say that they were reading books and stuff like that. It's like you're on top of it, asking these questions, reading things, talking about it preemptively, like the emotions might be a little bit surprising when, if and when they hit right, but we can't control that. There is no amount of reading or thinking that you could do that is going to make the emotions not be the emotions that you feel,  if and when they happen. Right? 

Genevieve  26:15  

Yeah, I think also the nice time of bonding and not having conflict and not having turbulence you're like, also deepening your sense of, like, safety with these people is what I would guess, if you're feeling really secure and even worried at how good things might be going, you know? So that is also going to contribute to whenever you hit some turbulence, that you'll have that track record of like, but we've been good, and we can be good again, and we can be, you know, we're committed to this, you know. So, yeah, I think I had a mentor once who was like, I can't help you with a problem that hasn't happened yet, you know. And like, that was that just always I try to go back to that of like, I don't yet have enough information of what the problem is going to be that I can't get the answer anyway to prepare for it. So it's just spinning my wheels today, when it's a bright, sunny day out, you know. And I could, you know, so trust that you will, you will take care of you in the future. To trust future you, you know, that would be my takeaway. That's something you tell me all the time. I was gonna say he's pointing at me, yeah, yeah, well, I need to also take that advice. Yeah.

Ishik  27:23  

Okay, great. So let's go ahead and get to the next question. How do we navigate the process of negotiating boundaries? We considered setting both, quote, preliminary and long term boundaries, as in boundaries that we feel we need in the situation that we're in right now, until certain things are settled or negotiated, and then potential boundaries that form a long term basis. What is your perspective on this? So, I mean, I think my first real question is, as I'm reading this, are we talking about boundaries, or are we talking about rules?

Genevieve  27:56  

Yeah. I mean, so boundaries are what you do, rules are what other people do. Are you using boundaries that same way? But I could see, like, for example, a short term boundary might be, I don't currently want to hear all about your date. That could change in the future. I just, you know, I get a little stressed out if I get a lot of details. A long term boundary for me might be like, I don't until the foreseeable future, I don't really want to be in a threesome. That's not something I want to participate in. So, you know, but a short term rule could be, you come home at 9pm sharp and I won't, I won't ask that of you forever. I'm saying this neutrally. I'm not approving or co-signing any of this. I'm just describing the difference. A long term rule would be, you never move in with anybody else. If we are talking about rules, I'm not a fan of telling other people what they're allowed to do. You know, making rules. We are going to have agreements. I agree. I will treat you like this. I think we can request things as long as the other person feels like they can say no, but I don't like making militant rules. That's just me.

Ishik  29:05  

I think, when it comes to agreements in a dynamic, right? These things are trying to serve a purpose, right? They are trying to fill a need. And I think that the underlying need or the underlying feelings are the place that the work should be going, rather than on how to perfectly craft, trying to imagine the future and plan around them. That's that, I think, that's an intellectualizing that will not benefit you as much as “Why do I fear this potential future?” Investigate that. If the underlying emotions, the underlying concerns, the underlying feelings, the underlying needs, are being acknowledged and discussed openly, and kind of digging, being dug into, the appropriate solutions will become more clear. 

Genevieve  30:09  

Yeah, a lot of times. So let's say the feeling that is coming up is fear and anxiety. I do like to ask, well, what is it that you're afraid of? What is your worst case scenario? Because a lot of times agreements get constructed to prevent that from ever happening. So what is whatever you're agreeing to, supposed to solve, supposed to prevent, supposed to protect. Because there can be a lot of ways to solve, prevent, protect those things. So if I agree, for example, if I make this agreement, I'm going to come home at 9pm sharp. Well, what if that's just like, not really logistically possible for me to promise that. What if I don't actually want to promise that, what if I might start feeling resentful that I have to cut an organic evening short? You know, your reasons might be multiple fold. Well, I want to know when you're coming home. Well, why do you want to know when they're coming home, you know? Well, I just don't like the idea of you getting so carried away that you lose track of time. Why? Well, because maybe you're connecting with them. Why is that scary? You know? And it's not to say you can't then land on an agreement. It's to better understand the real, deeper, deeper, deeper, deeper motive. Because ultimately, if the fear is, I fear you're gonna leave me. Well, you coming back at 9pm sharp isn't the only way to be shown that you're not gonna be abandoned. You know? So understanding the deeper core meaning can then often, one like, get to the root of the real pain, rather than staying up in the sort of nitpicking of details that doesn't really address the real pain. But it can also open up a whole bunch of opportunities of like, other ways that this need can be met. You still meet the need of reminding you that you're not being abandoned, but if the partner doesn't like the 9pm agreement, okay, great. You can say no to that and come up with something new without saying so you can say no to the agreement or change the agreement without saying no to comforting your partner and meeting the need. 

Ishik  32:13  

There are infinite permutations, infinite combinations. There's countless interactions between your needs that can have both of them be met, right? One person can have the freedom to explore new connections, and the other person can feel safe, right? And it's a matter of getting down to what both core needs are and then collaborating about how to fit both needs in right? These aren't competing needs. They are needs that are clashing at the moment with your current solution.

Genevieve  32:49  

Okay, next question, so I'm a polyamorous person who desires to have children someday and would love to find multiple people interested in co parenting. I currently have a long term nested partner, and they are exploring whether or not parenting is for them, and they support my desire to have children, regardless if that includes them as a parent or not. I'm interested in finding co parents where there's also potential to live with. I'm not sure how to navigate this in a way that's transparent, but I also don't want to project this idealized box to fit a new partner into. I would be polyamorous regardless of my desire to have children. How would you suggest going about this? Yeah. I mean, I think it can be stressful for anyone monogamous as well, if your priority is in X amount of years to hopefully become a parent that you do want to share that with people without that being heard as if you don't want a parent that I'm not interested, you know. That's kind of the more mono, normative approach is like, I have this check box and you're either you either fit it or you don't. But when you can have multiple co parents, multiple romantic partners, multiple people that you live with, when there's a bit more fluidity there, it's not an interview for that job. It's just to sort of see where their priorities are, what they're imagining, what they're thinking, you know. And people's own wants and needs can evolve as relationships evolve, you know. So you just kind of keep talking. It's not just like one criteria that you, you mentioned up top.

Ishik  34:16  

And I think that the part that jumps out to me is that idea of you're not you don't know how you're gonna feel about a person, right? Like, you can come in and you can know that this is something you want to do, but that doesn't preclude you from having other connections, right? And even if you like, I'm sure that you've had the experience where you've met another person who wants to live with somebody and who wants to have a kid, and you have no fucking desire to be with them, right? Like, this isn't a “Oh, you fit these two things, and now we are a pair”, right? That's not how it works. You can go in knowing this is something you're interested in, and you're gonna feel connected or drawn to a person, kind of regardless of that. And I think the wonderful thing about non monogamy is it means that you do not have to write off those connections if they do not fit into these desires, right? You can be clear about what you're interested in and just see if you connect with a person, and if you connect with them and they want these things, great. If you are being honest, if you are being open with yourself and with everyone else, none of these things are mutually exclusive.

Genevieve  35:23  

Yeah, the last part of your question commented that you would be polyamorous regardless of your desire to have kids. So you can also love people and build relationships with people regardless of their desire to have kids. And it just stays a conversation, you know?

Ishik  35:39  

Yeah! So on to the next one. I am new to polyamory, and I have a couple that I'm great friends with. One of the members of the couple and I have in the past expressed interest in one another, but I'm unsure of the dynamic. Any tips for someone trying to date their best friend? So I would say the big headline here is, “I'm unsure of the dynamic.” That one is, I think, a pretty clear cut answer. Talk to them and be honest about your thoughts and feelings. If you are interested in dating them, say, “Hey, I'm interested to hear more about your dynamic, I have some feelings for you.”

Genevieve  36:22  

Yeah, I'd say there's a lot of questions to be asked before acting on anything if possible. So when it comes to a duo, especially a duo you're friends with, can there be questions about, what does your non monogamy look like? What agreements do you have with each other.

Ishik  36:41  

So, I think actually what's important to take note is I don't know that the couple is definitively non monogamous. 

Genevieve  36:50  

Oh, okay. You don't even know if the two of them have agreed on what it should look like and if they want to build the same thing, right? So if you're getting the sense that there's not clarity there, then there won't be clarity with what they're available to build with you. And so, yeah, I just try to suss out like, do you feel clear on where your personal lines are? Is the duo imposing any ceilings on other new relationships, and how could that affect your friendship? If one of your friends is saying, Well, you can only go so far with my partner, for example, right? Yeah,

Ishik  37:21  

I think that the the other kind of main point here is that you already have relationships with both of these two people. This does not have to be, and frankly, kind of shouldn't be a conversation just between you and them. This really should be a conversation between you and each of your two friends, right? Even if you don't date the other person, you are still their friend, and you want to make sure that everyone's feeling good about this, because we don't want to hurt our friends either. I think that one of the most common concerns around wanting to date a friend, especially somebody you're really close to, is what if this harms the friendship right? And honestly, I think the biggest potential risk for harming a friendship is sneaking, hiding, lying, stuff like that. I think if you can, the more direct and clear you can be, the better the chance is that the friendship will survive and maybe grow into something more. I think that what's important is for this to not be something in the dark, right? That's not where I think non monogamy thrives. I think it really does far better out in the open and trying to figure it out through clues and hints is not going to be your friend.

Genevieve  38:48  

And in the spirit of not wanting to hurt a friendship or lose a friendship, is everybody clear on what would be hurtful in a friend group, opening up any issues that are already there will become magnified. So if you already have some tension with one of your friends about something, and now you're dating their partner, that will become much more intense, and you may have to reckon with it. You know, obviously, pretty much everybody agrees that if info is withheld or lied about or they're sneaking that that's hurtful. But are there other things that people have in mind that would be hurtful? There are a lot of assumptions that people make when they use the same words. What does cheating or betrayal look like in this new dynamic? You know, do you agree on what sex is? Do you agree on what polyamory is, and to really feel like there's an open channel of communication to keep talking every step of the way.

Ishik  39:45  

And with that, we'll be on to the next one. Okay, so my partner and I are dating the same person separately, but have done dates altogether too. He started dating her five months ago, then I started dating her three months ago, and then about two. Months ago, we started sometimes also dating as a trio. We each, of course, value time with ourselves, with one another as duos and with all three of us. My question is about upcoming birthdays and holidays, how to navigate spending time together and celebrating while also honoring individual needs. It just feels like it has the potential to get a little tricky. I mean, I think that immediately, the fact that the time management and how you're each spending time with each other and yourselves is on top of mind is a good sign. And the, you know, the forethought to be asking about these things, right? I think ultimately, there is no one right answer. I think each of you can weigh what each of you wants to do, right? Like, for instance, I like Christmas. But I'm not, I don't have, like, a ton of super I don't have too many important emotional ties to Christmas, right? If I wasn't spending Christmas with a partner, I wouldn't be like, Oh my god, they abandoned me on Christmas, right? I'd be like, Okay, that's fine. It's a day off, you know, or whatever. It's presents, cool. And I think that is not even like you like Christmas, or you don't. That's a wide spectrum of, what are your expectations for that holiday, what are your emotional ties to these events and and communicate those things? Right? So, first and foremost, I think each of you should really kind of do an inventory of what these events mean to each of you and what you each individually want. 

Genevieve  41:42  

Yeah. I mean, are you planning celebration based off of what and how you would love to celebrate, or are you planning it based on what you're supposed to do and what it should look like? And that is really something that challenges us when we have multiple people that we want to celebrate with is, yeah, birthdays, holidays, they might start looking different. They might sometimes people, I mean, people do this anyway, but we'll extend to a birthday week, you know, or they'll have a couple of Christmases. Divorced families do that. They have two Christmases. You know, it's like, what is it that you would love to do? I would love to be with you on the day of, like that would mean a lot to me. Or now the day itself doesn't really bug me, but I would love to do this kind of activity. Maybe it happens a day or two before or after, right? Like a lot of times, people would get hung up on if I am with this person at a romantic place on Valentine's Day. That equals valid love. I'm not saying you're being that overly simplistic, but people can get caught up in that because of the messaging that we've internalized, of what love looks like, of what a successful Christmas, of a happy birthday, what those look like, rather than what do you really want to do? Where do you want to be, and how can you all talk about it? And, yeah, and see where that all overlaps. You might all be on the same page more than you think.

Ishik  43:07  

And I think that that overlap is the thing right, where sometimes some of these things will clash, right. Talk about it, right? And say, Well, how would we all feel right about if we do this or that, or this or that, and like who will be hurt and mitigate that hurt. And I think that if you are coming with that level of collaboration, that level of discussion, even if somebody ultimately isn't getting 100% what they want, the love and the care will come through far more. It's about the feelings. Yeah, right. It isn't about the days. It is about the emotions. It is about care. Yeah, it's, I think it's very manageable. 

Genevieve  43:51  

Y'all talk about it. Decide on it. Do not keep score and do not get caught up too much on, like, militant, you know, tightness, on anything. That is where some people get tripped up of, like, well, you were with this person in the morning, so then I get a morning, you know, like, there can be this sort of tit for tat that sometimes comes out of the discomfort of not knowing how to do it. But then that winds up, yeah, being a little bit more, yeah, just not fun. The whole point is you're celebrating. The whole point is you are spending time with each other, getting good, warm, fuzzy feelings. So don't get too militant about the days, times and specifics of things. Can there be some breathing room around that? Keeping in mind that everybody wants everybody to feel good, and you don't have to do it this way every time this year. Let's try it this way, and we'll see what we learn. You know?

Ishik  44:39  

That's another really good point, right? Is that, like, instead of seeing it as, this is the test of the relationship, it is the first Christmas or it is the first Valentine's Day, right? If, if you guys see it that way, it actually starts to make it really sweet, right? You're, you're planning for a future together. That's quite lovely.

Music

So that's gonna be it for today's q and a special episode. We will be back next week with a regularly scheduled episode of the show with another great guest for you. Thank you to everyone who sent in questions. We really appreciated how open hearted and honest, you all were with us.

Genevieve  45:22  

If we weren't able to get to your question, or if I got to your question and we missed some stuff, if you'd like to chat more, I offer peer support for solo, duo and trio sessions, so you can learn more about that and see my calendar at chillpolyamory.com

Ishik  45:37  

And if you're looking for more polyamory content, Genevieve, as always, is on Tiktok and Instagram @chillpolyamory, also on YouTube @chillpolyamory, where she discusses non monogamy in film and TV. 

Genevieve  45:49  

So you can support those projects and this podcast directly on Patreon, where you'll get early access to videos private stories. I do a live Q and A just like this regularly for all of my patrons, and an option for email pen pal support if you'd like to chat that way as well. So there's more about that on patreon.com/chillpolyamory.

Ishik  46:11  

And this has been I Could Never… For everyone listening, remember that just because you've never done something before doesn't mean you can't do it.